THE EXCHANGE BELOW IS FROM TODAY'S POSTS AT WIM DANKBAAR'S JFK FORUM (NOT YET HEAVILY INFILTRATED WITH THOSE TRYING TO DESTROY IT, AS IS THE CASE WITH OTHER JFK FORUMS)
AUG. 14, 2010 JFKMURDERSOLVED.COM JFK FORUM
Re: JFK: THE CASE FOR CONSPIRACY.
Dear Mr. Joe "Dealey Joe" Hall, and Fellow JFK
Forum Members: 05.22.2006 -
I originally Posted this Headline: JFK: The Case for Conspiracy,
a video documentary produced by Robert J. Groden. While all of
Groden's work is meritorious and definitely stands on its own,
I think that it certainly goes hand in hand with all of the work
done by Jim Garrison. Robert Groden's video documentary: JFK:
The Case For Conspiracy is 113 minutes in length. Jim Garrison's
video documentary: JFK Assassination: The Jim Garrison Tapes
is 90 minutes in length. Comments ? Respectfully,
Bruce Patrick Brychek.
- Bruce Patrick Brychek
- Posts: 528
- Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 9:09 am
- Location: P.O. Box 113 Olympia Fields, Illinois 60461.0113 U.S.A.
Re: JFK: THE CASE FOR CONSPIRACY.
I agree that Mr. Groden's two pictorials, on the assassination,
and on Oswald, are both excellent works. There just arent a
lot of books that show a lot of the captured visuals from that
and subsequent days, and his work fills a void. Likewise,
his work with the Z film has brought the case forcefully to
the forefront. Where would we be, if the film never made it
in any form to the public eye? I've got his dvd, as well as
both books, and consider them basic referance materials I
couldnt do without. He lately has been having trouble with
the law and those in power in Dallas. I encourage anyone
who believes Bob should be able to buy a permit and sell
his books on "Dealy ground zero" to write the authorities
in Dallas, and ask them what country we live in...The United
States, where freedom of expression and the press are
granted by the Constitution, or some fascist state, where
it's illegal to express what you believe. After all, the
6th floor museum can hock what amounts to untrue propaganda.
Our own governement's House committee already has said it
believed Kennedy was a victim of a conspiracy. What kind of a
country do we live in, where the truth is not allowed to be
told and spread, in a peaceful, legal manner, on our open city
parks? Kit.
- Kit Carp
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:24 am
Re: JFK: THE CASE FOR CONSPIRACY.
Dear Mr. Kit Carp, and Fellow JFK Forum Members: Kit -
A sincere Welcome to the JFK Forum. I thoroughly appreciated,
and re-read your Horne evaluations. You join Phil Dragoo who
has been providing a complete, analytical dialogue over the
entire Five Volume piece of work as Phil completes his
evaluations volume by volume. Phil and Kit perhaps you
should create a New Headline Post and Re-Post your entire
group of analytical pieces on Horne thus making it easier
for everyone to view your entire collected wisdom. I am
books behind, and admit that I need to read the entire
masterpiece. Phil and Kit you certainly have provided
additional impetus to me. Kit - I also agree with you
strongly that Groden's works are Basic Reference Material.
A simple, yet powerful statement. I also agree with you
about Groden's troubles in Dallas, Texas. My trusted
friend Judyth Vary Baker created a website article about
this, and after a month, only Phil Dragoo and I had
registered comments in support thereof. Kit - The curve in
the road began 11.22.1963. The Declaration of Independence,
The Constitution, The Bill of Rights, and the Scam of
Democracy are taught in schools along with the Lee Harvey
Oswald did it alone theory. Only now does it leak out
that Roosevelt, Churchill and others knew of the pendency
of Pearl Harbor. Man's Inhumanity To Man, and The
Meglo-Maniac Desire For Power know no equal. The Patriot
Act, Pre-Emptive Strikes and Wars, [and] Control of the
Population ... are the Real Order of the Ruling Elite
for today and beyond. Welcome to the 22nd century.
Meanwhile Obama swims in Florida and states that
things are better in The Gulf. Kit - I really
appreciate the fact that you have actually read and
studied written works, and viewed and analyzed filmed
works, and then report back on them. Thank You.
Comments ? Respectfully, Bruce Patrick Brychek.
- Bruce Patrick Brychek
- Posts: 528
- Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 9:09 am
- Location: P.O. Box 113 Olympia Fields, Illinois 60461.0113 U.S.A.
Re: JFK: THE CASE FOR CONSPIRACY.
Thank you for
your kind words, Mr. Brycheck. I'd be happy to start a
thread about Douglas Horne's most excellent work. Your
comment about the "curve in the road" brings to mind to
me what I have for a long time considered the "bookends"
in the assassination of President Kennedy. As President
Eisenhower left office, he gave us a warning of things
to come. ***
Eisenhower's Farewell Address to the Nation January 17, 1961
"...But threats, new in kind or degree, constantly arise.
Of these, I mention two only.... ...This conjunction of
an immense military establishment and a large arms industry
is new in the American experience. The total influence –
economic, political, even spiritual – is felt in every
city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal
government. We recognize the imperative need for this
development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave
implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all
involved; so is the very structure of our society.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the
acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or
unsought, by the military-industrial complex.
>The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced
power exists and will persist. We must never let
the weight of this combination endanger our liberties
or democratic processes. We should take nothing for
granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry
can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial
and military machinery of defense with our peaceful
methods and goals, so that security and liberty may
prosper together." *** Then, exactly
one month after that terrible day in Dallas, on
the one month anniversery of the assassination, when the USA
and the world were still pondering what happened,
while the investigation was ongoing and much of
the world mourned....brave and astute Harry Truman
spoke up in an article which was printed in the
morning edition of the Washington Post on December
22, 1963.
Mysteriously, and tellingly, this was not
picked up and run with, by the rest of the
newspapers and magazines of this nation. This was our
popular ex-president's opinion. Why wasnt it
important enough to run throughout the country?
In it, ex-President Truman does his best to dare to
skate close to the truth. When I think of the date,
it gives me goosebumps every time I read this. ***
Limit CIA Role To Intelligence
By Harry S Truman Copyright, 1963,
by Harry S Truman "
INDEPENDENCE, MO., Dec. 21 — I think it has become
necessary to take another look at the purpose and
operations of our Central Intelligence Agency—CIA.
At least, I would like to submit here the original
reason why I thought it necessary to organize this
Agency during my Administration, what I expected
it to do and how it was to operate as an arm of
the President. I think it is fairly obvious that
by and large a President's performance in office
is as effective as the information he has and the
information he gets. That is to say, that assuming
the President himself possesses a knowledge of
our history, a sensitive understanding of our
institutions, and an insight into the needs and
aspirations of the people, he needs to have
available to him the most accurate and up-to-the-minute
information on what is going on everywhere in the
world, and particularly of the trends and developments
in all the danger spots in the contest between East
and West. This is an immense task and requires a
special kind of an intelligence facility. Of course,
every President has available to him all the
information gathered by the many intelligence agencies
already in existence. The Departments of State,
Defense, Commerce, Interior and others are constantly
engaged in extensive information gathering and have
done excellent work. But their collective information
reached the President all too frequently in conflicting
conclusions. At times, the intelligence reports tended
to be slanted to conform to established positions of a
given department. This becomes confusing and what's
worse, such intelligence is of little use to a President
in reaching the right decisions. Therefore, I decided
to set up a special organization charged with the
collection of all intelligence reports from every
available source, and to have those reports reach me as
President without department "treatment" or
interpretations. I wanted and needed the information in
its "natural raw" state and in as comprehensive a volume
as it was practical for me to make full use of it. But
the most important thing about this move was to guard
against the chance of intelligence being used to influence
or to lead the President into unwise decisions—and I
thought it was necessary that the President do his own
thinking and evaluating. Since the responsibility for
decision making was his—then he had to be sure that no
information is kept from him for whatever reason at the
discretion of any one department or agency, or that
unpleasant facts be kept from him. There are always
those who would want to shield a President from bad
news or misjudgments to spare him from being "upset."
For some time I have been disturbed by the way CIA has
been diverted from its original assignment .It has become
an operational and at times a policy-making arm of the
Government. This has led to trouble and may have compounded
our difficulties in several explosive areas.
I never had any thought that when I set up the CIA that
it would be injected into peacetime cloak and dagger
operations. Some of the complications and embarrassment
I think we have experienced are in part attributable to
the fact that this quiet intelligence arm of the President
has been so removed from its intended role that it is being
interpreted as a symbol of sinister and mysterious
foreign intrigue—and a subject for cold war enemy
propaganda. With all the nonsense put out by Communist
propaganda about "Yankee imperialism," "exploitive
capitalism," "war-mongering," "monopolists," in their
name-calling assault on the West, the last thing
we needed was for the CIA to be seized upon as
something akin to a subverting influence in the
affairs of other people. I well knew the first
temporary director of the CIA, Adm. Souers, and
the later permanent directors of the CIA, Gen. Hoyt
Vandenberg and Allen Dulles. These were men of the
highest character, patriotism and integrity—and
I assume this is true of all those who continue
in charge. But there are now some searching questions
that need to be answered. I, therefore, would like to
see the CIA be restored to its original assignment as
the intelligence arm of the President, and that
whatever else it can properly perform in that special
field—and that its operational duties be terminated
or properly used elsewhere.
We have grown up as a nation, respected for our free
institutions and for our ability to maintain a free and
open society. There is something about the way the CIA
has been functioning that is casting a shadow over our
historic position and I feel that we need to correct it."
*** We sometimes forget that the
truth about what happened to President Kennedy is not so
very buried and hard to figure out as we might think.
Most of the answers sit right before us, in plain sight,
for those who research our own recent history, and pay
attention to those who were brave enough to actually
speak the truth. Freedom has away of ringing. When
Liberty is compromised, when dark forces in the form of
power and greed take away the basic freedoms the
Constitution has granted us, we need to be cognizant of
what has actually happened, and be ready to do our own
little parts, in whatever way we can, to regain our
most basic rights as Americans. Good night and God
Bless, Kit Carp
your kind words, Mr. Brycheck. I'd be happy to start a
thread about Douglas Horne's most excellent work. Your
comment about the "curve in the road" brings to mind to
me what I have for a long time considered the "bookends"
in the assassination of President Kennedy. As President
Eisenhower left office, he gave us a warning of things
to come. ***
Eisenhower's Farewell Address to the Nation January 17, 1961
"...But threats, new in kind or degree, constantly arise.
Of these, I mention two only.... ...This conjunction of
an immense military establishment and a large arms industry
is new in the American experience. The total influence –
economic, political, even spiritual – is felt in every
city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal
government. We recognize the imperative need for this
development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave
implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all
involved; so is the very structure of our society.
In the councils of government, we must guard against the
acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or
unsought, by the military-industrial complex.
>The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced
power exists and will persist. We must never let
the weight of this combination endanger our liberties
or democratic processes. We should take nothing for
granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry
can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial
and military machinery of defense with our peaceful
methods and goals, so that security and liberty may
prosper together." *** Then, exactly
one month after that terrible day in Dallas, on
the one month anniversery of the assassination, when the USA
and the world were still pondering what happened,
while the investigation was ongoing and much of
the world mourned....brave and astute Harry Truman
spoke up in an article which was printed in the
morning edition of the Washington Post on December
22, 1963.
Mysteriously, and tellingly, this was not
picked up and run with, by the rest of the
newspapers and magazines of this nation. This was our
popular ex-president's opinion. Why wasnt it
important enough to run throughout the country?
In it, ex-President Truman does his best to dare to
skate close to the truth. When I think of the date,
it gives me goosebumps every time I read this. ***
Limit CIA Role To Intelligence
By Harry S Truman Copyright, 1963,
by Harry S Truman "
INDEPENDENCE, MO., Dec. 21 — I think it has become
necessary to take another look at the purpose and
operations of our Central Intelligence Agency—CIA.
At least, I would like to submit here the original
reason why I thought it necessary to organize this
Agency during my Administration, what I expected
it to do and how it was to operate as an arm of
the President. I think it is fairly obvious that
by and large a President's performance in office
is as effective as the information he has and the
information he gets. That is to say, that assuming
the President himself possesses a knowledge of
our history, a sensitive understanding of our
institutions, and an insight into the needs and
aspirations of the people, he needs to have
available to him the most accurate and up-to-the-minute
information on what is going on everywhere in the
world, and particularly of the trends and developments
in all the danger spots in the contest between East
and West. This is an immense task and requires a
special kind of an intelligence facility. Of course,
every President has available to him all the
information gathered by the many intelligence agencies
already in existence. The Departments of State,
Defense, Commerce, Interior and others are constantly
engaged in extensive information gathering and have
done excellent work. But their collective information
reached the President all too frequently in conflicting
conclusions. At times, the intelligence reports tended
to be slanted to conform to established positions of a
given department. This becomes confusing and what's
worse, such intelligence is of little use to a President
in reaching the right decisions. Therefore, I decided
to set up a special organization charged with the
collection of all intelligence reports from every
available source, and to have those reports reach me as
President without department "treatment" or
interpretations. I wanted and needed the information in
its "natural raw" state and in as comprehensive a volume
as it was practical for me to make full use of it. But
the most important thing about this move was to guard
against the chance of intelligence being used to influence
or to lead the President into unwise decisions—and I
thought it was necessary that the President do his own
thinking and evaluating. Since the responsibility for
decision making was his—then he had to be sure that no
information is kept from him for whatever reason at the
discretion of any one department or agency, or that
unpleasant facts be kept from him. There are always
those who would want to shield a President from bad
news or misjudgments to spare him from being "upset."
For some time I have been disturbed by the way CIA has
been diverted from its original assignment .It has become
an operational and at times a policy-making arm of the
Government. This has led to trouble and may have compounded
our difficulties in several explosive areas.
I never had any thought that when I set up the CIA that
it would be injected into peacetime cloak and dagger
operations. Some of the complications and embarrassment
I think we have experienced are in part attributable to
the fact that this quiet intelligence arm of the President
has been so removed from its intended role that it is being
interpreted as a symbol of sinister and mysterious
foreign intrigue—and a subject for cold war enemy
propaganda. With all the nonsense put out by Communist
propaganda about "Yankee imperialism," "exploitive
capitalism," "war-mongering," "monopolists," in their
name-calling assault on the West, the last thing
we needed was for the CIA to be seized upon as
something akin to a subverting influence in the
affairs of other people. I well knew the first
temporary director of the CIA, Adm. Souers, and
the later permanent directors of the CIA, Gen. Hoyt
Vandenberg and Allen Dulles. These were men of the
highest character, patriotism and integrity—and
I assume this is true of all those who continue
in charge. But there are now some searching questions
that need to be answered. I, therefore, would like to
see the CIA be restored to its original assignment as
the intelligence arm of the President, and that
whatever else it can properly perform in that special
field—and that its operational duties be terminated
or properly used elsewhere.
We have grown up as a nation, respected for our free
institutions and for our ability to maintain a free and
open society. There is something about the way the CIA
has been functioning that is casting a shadow over our
historic position and I feel that we need to correct it."
*** We sometimes forget that the
truth about what happened to President Kennedy is not so
very buried and hard to figure out as we might think.
Most of the answers sit right before us, in plain sight,
for those who research our own recent history, and pay
attention to those who were brave enough to actually
speak the truth. Freedom has away of ringing. When
Liberty is compromised, when dark forces in the form of
power and greed take away the basic freedoms the
Constitution has granted us, we need to be cognizant of
what has actually happened, and be ready to do our own
little parts, in whatever way we can, to regain our
most basic rights as Americans. Good night and God
Bless, Kit Carp
- Kit Carp
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:24 am
Re: JFK: THE CASE FOR CONSPIRACY.
Excellent post, Kit- many thanks! Thom
- ThomZajac
- Posts: 926
- Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 3:13 pm
- Location: Bonny Doon, CA
Re: JFK: THE CASE FOR CONSPIRACY.
Fantastic info there Kit. I always knew about Ike's warning,
but I wasn't aware that Truman also had misgivings about
the CIA.
"Follow the money." - Deep Throat http://www.ctka.net/2010/perry.html Bob
Bob
- Posts: 3999
- Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:39 pm
- Location: Florida/Wisconsin
"engaged in strange activities"
Truman's editorial in the
Washington Post December, 1963, brought a visit by
Allen Dulles attempting to force a retraction. None
was forthcoming yet Dulles wrote a memo to CIA
counsel Houston claiming Truman was aghast at how
his words had been “misrepresented” in said editorial.
To give the lie to Dulles' disinfomemo, Truman
wrote William B. Arthur managing editor of Look magazine June 10, 1964:
The CIA was set up by me for the sole purpose of
getting all the available information to the President.
It was not intended to operate as an international agency
engaged in strange activities.
“Strange activities” indeed, Harry.
Phil Dragoo
- Posts: 410
- Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:09 am
Re: JFK: THE CASE FOR CONSPIRACY.
I did not know about Dulles and the attempt to get a retraction.
Where can I read the sordid details about that? Thank you for
this information. At this point in time...wasnt Dulles "retired"?
I do know that I cant find any mention of this important article
in any other newspaper from this day, or the next. It seems to be
a big fat lid was put over our press on this day about this
aritcle from our own ex-president. Morning edition of the
Washington Post, then, tah-tah, freedom of the press. That
says a lot for the state of our news media on December 22,
1963, dont you think?
